"Phoenix - FAQ, Stable, User support -Read Post #1" - Page 11

cre666 · #**101** (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 02:54 PM

I've done some reading on the subject.
Actually I've been reading both this & the dev threads, and all of the 2007 thread this weekend.
We need to organise a table with the following headder:
Ver name ; stat(stable/testing) ; pref currencies ; TF ; test results ; comments (how to operate it).

On that mater, could I open (drag&drop) phoenix on only one pair, some of them or should I use it on all of the pairs for it to be successfull? (the booster version had a very complicated set of instructions...).

BTW: I've read it earlier today, but I cant find it again. What is the main difference between mode 1, 2 & 3?

BTW 2: How does the MM function works in Phenix? does setting it to 0.003 means that you risk 3% of your equity in each deal? When does it stop? When your Core equity is down to 50%? 25? when?

alamanjani · #**102** (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre666

On that mater, could I open (drag&drop) phoenix on only one pair, some of them or should I use it on all of the pairs for it to be successfull? (the booster version had a very complicated set of instructions...).

You can put it on these pairs: GBPUSD, EURUSD, EURJPY, GBPJPY, USDJPY and USDCHF - these are supported, these have already seting hard coded if you use Prefsettings=true. You can use Phoenix in any combination (on one pair, two or three or all of them)

Which one would be the best. Hard to say. Because there were several changes while trimming out bugs, some if not all settings will probably need to be rewised and pairs optimized again. So expect in next week or two or so some changes. Now we are comming close to temp final version, and now will become right time to start with optimization. In the meantime, look at posted statements to see, which pair does the best.

I don't understand, what you mean with boster version. Phoenix boster didn't perform well and it was abandoned waaay back. Don't waste time with it. Rather focus on the later version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre666

BTW: I've read it earlier today, but I cant find it again. What is the main difference between mode 1, 2 & 3?

Mode1 - one trade
Mode2 - added second trade to first trade
Mode3 - three trades. main idea was, that (comparing with first mode) if first mode would sell at say 100 pips profit, then in mode three sells would be at say 80 pips (first trade), 100 pips (second trade) and 120 pips third trade. Depense of your settings of course.

Btw, check 4th msg of this thread. There is answer, where to look regarding differences betwen modes.

About MM - lower number (0.05) lower risk, higher number (you shoud not go over 0.3) higher risk. Don't know in % terms.

Mario

vincethebeast · #**103** (**permalink**) 01-08-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daraknor

We want the manual to be based on 5.7.1 because it is so much easier to understand. There are so many settings they needed to be organized a little.

Hi Daraknar,
Sorry for my absence but have been busy at work (yep, some people have to work during the holidays :-( )

Regarding the manual, I'm happy to adjust or even totally re-write my original version that was intended for Phoenix 4.
Having said that, I'm
1) not sure the original manual was any good in the first place
2) still waiting for a final stable version of Phoenix to be announced

I thought version 5.7.0 would be this but as usual, the development is continuing. I think it a bit pointless to write a manual and than having to make a completely new one a week later...
Suggestions?

Vince

autumnleaves · #**104** (**permalink**) 01-08-2007, 02:11 PM

I think that a manual is a good idea as long as it is understood as a set of rough guidelines. It could consist of two parts. One on general use of the EA, and another on the meaning of the inputs, perhaps in tabular form, as before. For example, I have no clue what the Grace inputs are about, or even whether to use them. We might also consider a section on optimization technique and backtesting, as I am sure that many may be confused about this (for example, me). E.g., does 99% backtesting on tick data represent a significant advantage over 90% backtesting on M15 timeframe data? While we're at it, how about a preamble about the general philosophy behind the EA, i.e., how its approach differs from others?

It does not have to be a finished product, since the EA isn't finished either. But some working guidelines would be most helpful.

Pcontour · #**105** (**permalink**) 01-09-2007, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumnleaves

I seem to be spinning my wheels here. I optimized on GPUSD with version 570, then ported the settings to 571. When I run the new settings on the same time period I get completely different results. Starting over with 571, but now I wonder whether I completely misunderstand the way the EA works in testing.

Hendrick says use PrefSetting false for (back)testing and manually set values of inputs. For live or demo forward testing, PrefSettings should be false, and the values from the code will be used. But then why bother doing backtesting if the values are going to be ignored when you do forward testing or go live?

Also, with MM=false, is it not possible to set a lot size other than 1?

Please clarify. We need a clear, well-written manual to explain the EA's innerds and how to optimize for best results. Confused!

For conversion from 5.7.0 to 5.7.1 you need this.
http://www.forex-tsd.com/77425-post187.html

Explains issues with new fields in 5.7.1 and how to get the same backtesting results. I won't attempt to answer all your questions, but this should help.

Pcontour · #**106** (**permalink**) 01-09-2007, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincethebeast

Hi Daraknar,
Sorry for my absence but have been busy at work (yep, some people have to work during the holidays :-( )

Regarding the manual, I'm happy to adjust or even totally re-write my original version that was intended for Phoenix 4.
Having said that, I'm
1) not sure the original manual was any good in the first place
2) still waiting for a final stable version of Phoenix to be announced

I thought version 5.7.0 would be this but as usual, the development is continuing. I think it a bit pointless to write a manual and than having to make a completely new one a week later...
Suggestions?

Vince

The manual was great. I found it invaluable in my learning about Phoenix. I think most of the manual is still accurate. With version 5.7.1 the manual becomes easier to write, as the external variables all have prefixes that help determine without the manual whether a field is set by pref settings or not. Have a look at the code now and you can see that it is easier to follow and maintain. Here is what I talked to Hendrick about back in November.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendrick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pcontour

Background

I've been working in Computers for 25 years. I've developed programming standards myself. Your code is top notch.

Proposition

I would like to have a chance to apply a bunch of changes to your code to make it easier to understand for Forex beginners like myself and for people who are not coders. These would be user friendly changes. Nothing radical would make sense, as it's excellent already.

Benefits

1. It would be easier for you to find your own functions in your own program.

2. It would be easier for others to come up to speed and make some useful suggestions. I get confused at times and can't tell the difference between your functions and MT4 functions. People will have less questions.

3. Would give you a better base for future developments for both your code and other code that might be based on the same basic structure as your program.

4. The beauty of your code is how you could use the same phoenix strategy with different indicators. Your code getting to the point of plug and play, you can easily switch pieces.

5. Once you see what I do, you can improve on it in ways that I wouldn't think of.

6. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.

What do I want

All I need is a window where you are not making changes, so I don't do work on the wrong version.

What I'm hoping for is a code base that anyone could work from to develop new Experts. We would benefit as a community if all the programs looked the same and we could look at and understand other peoples code and help each other out faster.

This is my way to contribute by doing what I'm good at.

Hi,

I like this very much:
"What I'm hoping for is a code base that anyone could work from to develop new Experts"

Have you visit the developers part of the Phoenix thread? At the moment I'm not working on Phoenix (I needed a break).

I have also volunteered to help with the manual since I did a lot of rearranging of the code. Could I get an original word version before it was turned into a pdf. I could so some of the work and then we can pass it on to Darknor to ensure that we understand the latest changes correctly.

vincethebeast · #**107** (**permalink**) 01-09-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pcontour

The manual was great. I found it invaluable in my learning about Phoenix. I think most of the manual is still accurate. With version 5.7.1 the manual becomes easier to write, as the external variables all have prefixes that help determine without the manual whether a field is set by pref settings or not. Have a look at the code now and you can see that it is easier to follow and maintain. Here is what I talked to Hendrick about back in November.
I have also volunteered to help with the manual since I did a lot of rearranging of the code. Could I get an original word version before it was turned into a pdf. I could so some of the work and then we can pass it on to Darknor to ensure that we understand the latest changes correctly.

Thanks for your kind words Pcontour.
Please check your PM.

@depictureboy:
How are you doing? Long time no see.
If my memory serves me right, you asked me a while back for the original document too and I totally forgot about it later on.. If you would you still be willing to have a go at improving it as you offered previously I'll send it to you too.

Would have been more then happy to do it myself but unfortunately work isn't going to allow me to have much time at home this month to keep the manual up to date... :-(

Cheers,

Vince

daraknor · #**108** (**permalink**) 01-09-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumnleaves

A manual would be a great thing, even if it only involved descriptions of inputs initially. Perhaps a table of input settings should be done initially so that people know where to start with each currency. If you send me the raw data with annotations I could prepare a PDF. We can do that offlist if you wish.

PrefSettings: "do I use values that are set up for specific currencies?" Where does it get these settings?

I presume that the "settings you specify" are those we enter manually or prepare as a .set file. So if we optimize and create a .set file, we must always have PrefSettings=false (for optimization, backtesting, forward testing on a demo, and live trading). Is that correct?

What about the behaviour of MoneyManagement?

I use Linux so I can make PDF with a print command from any application at zero cost. Thanks for the PDF offer though.
PContour's contribution (merged with other fixes into 5.7.1) is to label the settings based on if they are required with PrefSettings=true. The manual is much easier to create now.

daraknor · #**109** (**permalink**) 01-09-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincethebeast

Hi Daraknar,
Sorry for my absence but have been busy at work (yep, some people have to work during the holidays :-( )

Regarding the manual, I'm happy to adjust or even totally re-write my original version that was intended for Phoenix 4.
Having said that, I'm
1) not sure the original manual was any good in the first place
2) still waiting for a final stable version of Phoenix to be announced

I thought version 5.7.0 would be this but as usual, the development is continuing. I think it a bit pointless to write a manual and than having to make a completely new one a week later...
Suggestions?

Vince

Phoenix 5.7.0 is stable, but I'd prefer the manual written for 5.7.1 since it is easier to document, easier to understand, and has some community contributed bug fixes for penny brokers, etc. I'm focusing my dev work on 6.0 right now. If you can take the burden of the manual I would love that, and be able to write more code. Feel free to IM me if you have questions about the code. I think PContour understands what is going on in the code now too, he had some great suggestions and did most of the hard work of organization on the variable names with what settings they affect. (This means a ton of reading the code over and over and over.)

I'm not certain PeriodGrace and PeriodForce are working as intended, but nobody seems to be using these. Phoenix is grinding away just fine without them, and the two main things to increase profitability are coming soon (trend detection, S&R lines). I might tweak PG&PF later on if it is broken as written, but that shouldn't change the documention, only make it true

daraknor · #**110** (**permalink**) 01-09-2007, 06:04 PM

If Vince, PContour and others can make a manual that would be excellent. I would like to see a bit of separation regarding variable types and optimization. Variables that affect: entry points, exit point, lot size, and tunable parameters. More categories could be created, and some are needed for PrefSettings while some are not.

We do need a table on a website for "setting" "tested parameters" "date span" "currency" "performance" and maybe a few more columns too. That isn't necessary right this minute, but that sort of thinking may help planning/writing optimization guides.

I would like to reiterate that I think optimization of entry/exit points should be done in Mode1 with multiple trades, and optimization of lots, trailing stops, tunable parameters, etc should be done with whatever mode is being used for trading. (Mode3 T1/T2/T3 settings affect both parts) That will speed up the optimization process and clearly separate MM optimization from signal optimization (and we'll avoid having settings files with massive maxrisk claiming better signal).

I'm off to run errands. I might be headed out of town tomorrow to the state capital in order to file PhoenixFund paperwork. (We need a DBA to use PhoenixFund as the IB name.)

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