Choose your broker wisely.. am impartial comparison - Page 2

drgoodvibe · #11 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppc123

The results shouldn't differ sooooo much.
Maybe you didn't handle the failed orders correctly? What slippage did you set? Have your EA logged any order errors for further analysis?

Yes that is quite possible that the failed orders were not handled correctly however that still doesn't explain how there is such a great difference between the brokers results.

As for slippage and spread enlargement this just goes to show how different these brokers are from one another. If there is a great slippage or spread enlargement from one broker to the next than how is it possible to forecast a successful EA?

One must then immediately test each and every single EA they use on multiple brokers for fear that the results will be inadequate.

There have been no errors currently in the EA logs other than the standard broker disconnects that occur every now and again. However this I don't believe over time is the main reason why there is again such a wide margin of variance between the brokers results.

drgoodvibe · #12 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beno

Great thread

am i right in thinking that the results could differ so much due the where the broker gets there data from, as in from one of the ECN data suppliers like FXALL, Currenex, FX Connect, 360T or Hotspot FXi etc

I think FXALL have the most number of bank to obtain data from 60+ so in theory their data should be of higher quality with less spikes etc.

or am i on the wrong track

Cheers

Beno

That's my thinking -- The data feed could be dramatically different from one broker to the next.

Anyway here are todays results. Not too much action today.

drgoodvibe · #13 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 11:12 PM

Fairly low key day today in regards to the EA -- however still chugging along. There's such a dramatic difference in results.

So far there have been no major errors in the EA logs other than a couple broker disconnects. None of which seemed to last for more than a couple of minutes.

The results speak for themselves.

-drgoodvibe

drgoodvibe · #14 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 11:14 PM

And here are the equity graphs.

1) AlpariUK 2) FXOpen 3) FXDD 4)InterbankFX

Beno · #15 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 11:43 PM

Why don't you ask the brokers where they get their data from.

Then we will have something to compair and we will know what to look for in a broker.

Cheers

Beno

drgoodvibe · #16 (**permalink**) 03-17-2009, 12:32 AM

Here's a conversation I just had with InterbankFX - I logged in as "None"

Client Services 40: Hello, this is Timothy. How may I help you?
None: Hi There, I'm wondering where interbankfx gets its price feed from
Client Services 40: We currently have a number of liquidity providers including: Bank of America, Citigroup, Barclays, JP Morgan Chase and others who prefer to remain unnamed.
None: Why would they prefer to remain unnamed?
Client Services 40: They did not share their reasons with me.
None: what is the exact percentage from each institution? Is price calculated by aggregating quotes from each institution?
Client Services 40: This is not a statistic I have access to.
Client Services 40: Why do you ask?
Client Services 40: Sorry
Client Services 40: The price is not an aggregate
None: I would like to know as I am comparing brokers and find that many Expert Advisors run completely different and show different results from one broker to the next
Client Services 40: it is a best bid/ask situation
Client Services 40: If BOA has the highest bid we use their price, If Citi has the lowest ask we use their ask....
Client Services 40: So the spread is a result of the prices we get at any given time.
Client Services 40: Please be aware the spread is result of the prices we receive from our liquidity providers including: Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citicorp, and Barclays. We do not have any control of the prices they send to us.
None: Can you explain how the same EA on different brokers can have VERY different results.. To the point that on one broker its profitable and on another it is not?
Client Services 40: That's easy
Client Services 40: you see there is no centralized exchange in forex
Client Services 40: so
Client Services 40: the prices from different brokers can and will be different.
None: That I understand.. hence why I ask about your price feed
Client Services 40: We do not honor other broker's prices and they don't honor ours.
None: So the price feed is given to you by these institutions -- how is it quoted to you
Client Services 40: usually 5 million dollars at a time but it could be less...
None: I'm assuming that it is quoted to you direct and electronic?
Client Services 40: yes
None: So you have setup a partnership where Citibank is directly quoting via a separate platform that is than hooked into the MT4 servers
Client Services 40: and the others too
Client Services 40: so they compete
None: But it's up to you which prices are passed on to the retail trader at IBFX
Client Services 40: That is what we do. We are a link between the retail public and the liquidity providers
None: What are the algorithms that you use to pass on the price to the IBFX MT4 trader
Client Services 40: Best bid/ Best Ask, simple as that
None: in a volatile market that can get quite irregular to pass on to the retail trader. Is that why your spreads widen a great deal?
Client Services 40: exactly
None: Alright thank you

-drgoodvibe

drgoodvibe · #17 (**permalink**) 03-17-2009, 12:58 AM

This one is for FXDD.. looks like I'd have to investigate further..

-------------

English Support: Welcome to FXDD Live Chat. How may I help you?
drgoodvibe: Hi There, I'm wondering where Fxdd gets its price feed from
English Support: we recieve real time rates from a series of interbanks
drgoodvibe: Which interbanks? and how is it quoted to you
English Support: i am not able to say which banks, the prices are direct market rates tho
drgoodvibe: Why can't you say which banks?
drgoodvibe: I would imagine this would help in the transparency of your organization
English Support: to name a few .... goldman, deutsche bank, UBS, to name a few
English Support: we have relationships with all maor banks
drgoodvibe: How is the price quoted to FXDD by these major banks
English Support: major*
English Support: all the banks send a rate, and the best rate is used
drgoodvibe: No, the blocks that are quoted to FXDD before it's passed on to the FXDD retail trader. 5Million? 10?
drgoodvibe: How do the major banks send you the best rate?
English Support: one moment
drgoodvibe: I await your answer..
English Support: it is given to a linked network
English Support: that is connected to out platform servers
English Support: it is ECN
drgoodvibe: And what is the algorithm to which you pass on the price from the feed to the MT4 retail FXDD trader
English Support: one moment
English Support: i am not at liberty to say, that is proprietary info
drgoodvibe: Can you explain whether it's the best Bid/Ask at least?
English Support: we take the best bid/ask rate's we are given
drgoodvibe: You cannot explain any further?
English Support: what would you like to know exactly please
drgoodvibe: How the price is distributed to the retail trader from your institutional feed
English Support: i am not at liberty to discuss that sir
English Support: maybe tech support could better assist you
drgoodvibe: why could tech support tell me and you can't?
English Support: they are more familiar with the technical systems, I am not in any position to go into detail on how the system operates
English Support: would you like to call and speak with them
drgoodvibe: No that's fine. Thank you

ppc123 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-17-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodvibe

Yes that is quite possible that the failed orders were not handled correctly however that still doesn't explain how there is such a great difference between the brokers results.

No. If failed orders really were not handled correctly, it's quite normal for the different results. At least, you can see the 4 brokers you're using make your EA producing different no. of orders.

Many of you in this thread emphasizes the influences of differences of data feeds from different brokers... Well, I agree that those differences (occurances of spikes, price shiftings, etc.) can result in some differences in some trading strategies, but the differences shouldn't be so large.

Of course, my above paragraph talking about excludes the strategies using volumes data, like that money flow index. It's just common sense that volumes data should be avoided because the data is not so accurate in most brokers... So unless you're working for large institutions and confident in the data reliability, you shouldn't use.

Anyway, if you find that you get such different results from the brokers, how come you're still trying to test it? It's just a waste of time.

A good trading robot should remain consistant results in different data feeds in different brokers.

In the 4 brokers you're trying, I have live accounts in FXDD and FxOpen, and I'm running my own EAs on them, too. The entries and exits are nearly the same, and of course, the number of orders taken is the same from the time they started.

Beno · #19 (**permalink**) 03-17-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodvibe

This one is for FXDD.. looks like I'd have to investigate further..

-------------

English Support: Welcome to FXDD Live Chat. How may I help you?
drgoodvibe: Hi There, I'm wondering where Fxdd gets its price feed from
English Support: we recieve real time rates from a series of interbanks
drgoodvibe: Which interbanks? and how is it quoted to you
English Support: i am not able to say which banks, the prices are direct market rates tho
drgoodvibe: Why can't you say which banks?
drgoodvibe: I would imagine this would help in the transparency of your organization
English Support: to name a few .... goldman, deutsche bank, UBS, to name a few
English Support: we have relationships with all maor banks
drgoodvibe: How is the price quoted to FXDD by these major banks
English Support: major*
English Support: all the banks send a rate, and the best rate is used
drgoodvibe: No, the blocks that are quoted to FXDD before it's passed on to the FXDD retail trader. 5Million? 10?
drgoodvibe: How do the major banks send you the best rate?
English Support: one moment
drgoodvibe: I await your answer..
English Support: it is given to a linked network
English Support: that is connected to out platform servers
English Support: it is ECN
drgoodvibe: And what is the algorithm to which you pass on the price from the feed to the MT4 retail FXDD trader
English Support: one moment
English Support: i am not at liberty to say, that is proprietary info
drgoodvibe: Can you explain whether it's the best Bid/Ask at least?
English Support: we take the best bid/ask rate's we are given
drgoodvibe: You cannot explain any further?
English Support: what would you like to know exactly please
drgoodvibe: How the price is distributed to the retail trader from your institutional feed
English Support: i am not at liberty to discuss that sir
English Support: maybe tech support could better assist you
drgoodvibe: why could tech support tell me and you can't?
English Support: they are more familiar with the technical systems, I am not in any position to go into detail on how the system operates
English Support: would you like to call and speak with them
drgoodvibe: No that's fine. Thank you

Not a lot of support from FXDD.

riffster · #20 (**permalink**) 03-22-2009, 02:06 AM

I'm happy to see this discussion begin. I've been tempted to post similar info about different broker results. I've been running dozens of EA's on live accounts (not demos) for over a year now and the results are VERY VERY different from broker to broker. We have been using low deposits and micro minis to forward test EA's. I doubt that a broker would care about an account go from $100 to $257 in 1 year, but who knows? Here is what I know for certain:

1. The results do vary from broker to broker. I'm hosting the EA's on servers, so "down time" can only be affected by the brokers. I'm a loser on this point; I should have foreseen this possible issue and written an app to track the different platform feed connections so that I could graph out the percentage of down time per broker. (but I didn't, sorry...)

2. Brokers DO know the difference between a "market order"(click with your mouse) and an "EA triggered" trade. Yes, really. I know this from my days at IBFX and I've since confirmed it from other brokers. So are they "handling" EA orders differently? Unknown, but they can if needed...

3. Brokers constantly scan accounts for what they call "red flags". The "red flags" can be anything from "total number to trades per (hour,day,etc...)", "profit percentage (remember, most forex accounts blow-up, so if an account is making money, they usually take notice)" and scalping stuff. If they see a "red flag", your account will be put on "manual". This varies greatly from broker to broker, but basically it means that someone has to phyisically accept/clear each trade that is place from your account. Most brokers won't deny/block your EA orders, but if they are late in clearing your order and the price moves outside/beyond your max variance, then you will miss that trade. That's just one example, but I was able to track this a bit when comparing statements (i.e. trades in some accounts but not others). Yes, I know that price feeds can generate different indicator/EA output, so I confirmed this by watching the platforms live and I followed up to comfirm with a call to the broker.

What I've learned that can help: I call it the "butt kiss factor". If you have a good EA, your broker relationship is very important. I never accuse or get upset with my broker. I milk the relationship for political capital. Sounds crazy? Think about it; can you really accomplish anything by getting upset with your broker? (the answer is "no" btw, lol...) However, if you have a positive rapport with your broker's dealers, a simple phone call can get your account taken off of manual and allow your EA to perform better... just a thought...