Hi gays

i would like to thank all wonderful gays in this fourm ,this fourm helped me alot
however after 4 years of trading forex alot of wining and losts
i found that i always reach the brake even or get some profit and i always lost it again

i realy tried to figure how is the market moving
but tactually it seems to be no roles just outlines
the market become so fast and soemtimes the market in a trend for few hours and suddenly it reverse
as if soemone is playing with all of us
becuase if most of us have loses
who is the wining persons
i think there are pepole playing with us all and laughing on us
but we are the one who cry
anyway i lost my patient after 4years and it seems that nothing works
ot it works some time but not all the time
but this some time cannot make us rich

sometimes i feel the pepole making money from the forex are the brokers and the trainers and book publishers and the gay sellling forex signals and software
and we are the one who pays

please correct me if i am wrong

finally
no sigal can work fine not because it is bad but the market is very choppy
and many fasle signals are there
and entering late and exit late turn to loss
entering in time and exit late turn to loss
entering earlly and exit earlly can make you some profit but very tiny one
and it will dissapear in one wrong trade which will eat the whole profit

sorry for being dissapointed but after loosing much amount of money and time i am very dissapointed if anyone can naswer me before i get crazy

From your quote:

"i found that i always reach the brake even or get some profit and i always lost it again"
Same as me.

"i realy tried to figure how is the market moving"
Same as me.

"but tactually it seems to be no roles just outlines"
I don't think so, if you look the market closely you can see that THERE ARE rules, but they are really strange to see. (mmm)

"and it seems that nothing works
ot it works some time but not all the time
but this some time cannot make us rich"
You are exactly RIGHT!

"sometimes i feel the pepole making money from the forex are the brokers and the trainers and book publishers and the gay sellling forex signals and software
and we are the one who pays"
Exactly RIGHT! But there are also some people that are making very much money only trading (maybe the 0,000001% of traders)


"no sigal can work fine not because it is bad but the market is very choppy "
Wrong Strategy.

"and many fasle signals are there"
Wrong Strategy.

"entering late and exit late turn to loss"
The enter is not the important one, but the exit is the important one! A good strategy don't let you exit late.

"entering earlly and exit earlly can make you some profit but very tiny one"
Or maybe also a loss.


Conclusion:
I don't know

But don't give up!

__________________
My Trading Blog http://www.warninvest.tk

"Hey dude,Listen up" .

I have been at this myself for two years, and I feel the same sometimes as you do, but you got into this for ONE REASON, TO MAKE MONEY, and give yourself the kind of living most could only dream about.

If this was an easy game, every Tom, Dick & Harry would be doing it!
I know what you mean about it looks like there is only one kind of winner in this game, and it does look like it's the ebook, software’s, and the "so called Gurus" all having us believe, "Come with me and I'll show you how to be successful".
We are so desperate to be successful, we become an easy target for these guys, then you got the brokers trying to stitch us up from the word GO, but you know what you gotta filter out the majority of this crap and carry on.
You are probably spending too much time and money chasing the Holy Grail, and I'm sure you've heard it mentioned time and time again;THERE AINT NO SUCH THING!

The Holy grail is you!

I don’t know what chart setups, stop losses, indicators etc you have been using, but may I make a suggestion?

Go back to the old school.

1: Get rid of all your indicators. 98% of them are a waste of time.Just use the basic support/resistance and trendline
indicators & work from those until confidence is restored.

You said earlier, you enter the trade, and no sooner you do that, the
trend changes or the price goes the opposite way, so you close out or
get stopped out for 30 pips. You go in again, hoping that you’re in the right direction this time, and it goes against you again. You’re stopped out for another 30 pips.

Shit I'm 60 pips down in under an hour, I'll be flipping burgers by the end of the day at this rate!

The brokers and bankers know that the majority of traders use anything between 20 and 40-50 pips as stop losses, so this is why you will see price
action swinging between these points regularly throughout the day.

2: Don't spend another dime on any more courses, eBooks, personal tuition etc.
As I said earlier, these are the guys making the regular income @ our expense.

There is one group that will turn your trading around. Their signals are 100%
spot on, and they can back it up with proof from their website, and other genuine trader's comments. Every signal they have given out in two years HAS paid out!

This group DOES not use fancy indicators etc, they take trades based on economic events and the owners have a great deal of knowledge about interest rates, CPI, ECB, FED,NON FARM, Inflation etc, which is the real reason why the markets move. The main member of the group, uses a piece of software that has taken SIX years to develop, and is not for sale to anyone. He has already been offered sums of money that would make us cry. "However" I'm glad that they are willing to share the success of it with the likes of me and you. (Search for fxinsights)

3: Do what I do when your trading is going wrong. Switch off your machine, disconnect the lot, and take it to your "mother's for 14 days!
This way you can have a complete break from trading. Do something else
to occupy your mind in the meantime. There is such thing as over trading, and this is probably where your problems lies.

4: I said earlier about using very few indicators if not any, but just watching the patterns on the candle chart. If and when you decide to continue, switch to a higher time frame, 4hr with the one hour as your exit. this will filter out alot of false signals.

5: search this forum for details on the zup harmonic indicator (not advisable for newbies) and get to understand it, then add it to your chart. It's a very promising way of trading, and it's for free.

6: Portfolio' Leveredge and Risk.
Say you have a $5000 dollar portfolio, which allows you to trade 5 mini lots, I would suggest you only trade 2 mini lots at the most.This then gives you more room to widen your stop to around 100 pips drawdown instead of the measly 20-30 etc witch the majority of brokers and manipulators are ready to take out with not too much effort on their part.

If you trade with the trend and a 100 pip stop loss, you do not have to worry about exact timings, providing you do not get too greedy. 50-80 pips should be attainable 70-80% of the time.

Most of all, you may never know how close you were to succeeding, if you throw the towel in now AFTER SPENDING 4 YEARS @ IT!

For you and anyone else out there who's feeling the same way, the forex
is definitely a patience tester, but the rewards are there. You just have to know when to take it and then also when to back off and take the hard earned break when things are against you!

Use mini account, search more strategies, try one more time, don't give up.

The 5 Steps to becoming a trader
FOREX Trading

The 5 Steps to becoming a trader

Step One: Unconscious Incompetence.

This is the first step you take when starting to look into trading. you know that its a good way of making money because you've heard so many things about it and heard of so many millionaires. Unfortunately, just like when you first desire to drive a car you think it will be easy - after all, how hard can it be? Price either moves up or down - what's the big secret to that then - lets get cracking!

Unfortunately, just as when you first take your place in front of a steering wheel you find very quickly that you haven't got the first clue about what you're trying to do. You take lots of trades and lots of risks. When you enter a trade it turns against you so you reverse and it turns again .. and again, and again.

You may have initial success, and thats even worse - cos it tells your brain that this really is simple and you start to risk more money.

You try to turn around your losses by doubling up every time you trade. Sometimes you'll get away with it but more often than not you will come away scathed and bruised You are totally oblivious to your incompetence at trading.

This step can last for a week or two of trading but the market is usually swift and you move onth the next stage.

Step Two - Conscious Incompetence

Step two is where you realise that there is more work involved in trading and that you might actually have to work a few things out. You consciously realise that you are an incompetent trader - you don't have the skills or the insight to turn a regular profit.

You now set about buying systems and e-books galore, read websites based everywhere from USA to the Ukraine. and begin your search for the holy grail. During this time you will be a system nomad - you will flick from method to method day by day and week by week never sticking with one long enough to actually see if it does work. Every time you come upon a new indicator you'll be ecstatic that this is the one that will make all the difference.

You will test out automated systems on Metatrader, you'll play with moving averages, Fibonacci lines, support & resistance, Pivots, Fractals, Divergence, DMI, ADX, and a hundred other things all in the vein hope that your 'magic system' starts today. You'll be a top and bottom picker, trying to find the exact point of reversal with your indicators and you'll find yourself chasing losing trades and even adding to them because you are so sure you are right.

You'll go into the live chat room and see other traders making pips and you want to know why it's not you - you'll ask a million questions, some of which are so dumb that looking back you feel a bit silly. You'll then reach the point where you think all the ones who are calling pips after pips are liars - they cant be making that amount because you've studied and you don't make that, you know as much as they do and they must be lying. But they're in there day after day and their account just grows whilst yours falls.

You will be like a teenager - the traders that make money will freely give you advice but you're stubborn and think that you know best - you take no notice and overtrade your account even though everyone says you are mad to - but you know better. You'll consider following the calls that others make but even then it wont work so you try paying for signals from someone else - they don't work for you either.

You might even approach a 'guru' like Rob Booker or someone on a chat board who promises to make you into a trader(usually for a fee of course). Whether the guru is good or not you wont win because there is no replacement for screen time and you still think you know best.

This step can last ages and ages - in fact in reality talking with other traders as well as personal experience confirms that it can easily last well over a year and more nearer 3 years. This is also the step when you are most likely to give up through sheer frustration.

Around 60% of new traders die out in the first 3 months - they give up and this is good - think about it - if trading was easy we would all be millionaires. another 20% keep going for a year and then in desperation take risks guaranteed to blow their account which of course it does.

What may suprise you is that of the remaining 20% all of them will last around 3 years - and they will think they are safe in the water - but even at 3 years only a further 5-10% will continue and go on to actually make money consistently.

By the way - they are real figures, not just some ive picked out of my head - so when you get to 3 years in the game dont think its plain sailing from there.

Iv had many people argue with me about these timescales - funny enough none of them have been trading for more that 3 years - if you think you know better then ask on a board for someone who's been trading 5 years and ask them how long it takes to become fully 100% proficient. Sure i guess there will be exceptions to the rle - but i havent met any yet.

Eventually you do begin to come out of this phase. You've probably committed more time and money than you ever thought you would, lost 2 or 3 loaded accounts and all but given up maybe 3 or 4 times but now its in your blood

One day - im a split second moment you will enter stage 3.

Step 3 - The Eureka Moment

Towards the end of stage two you begin to realise that it's not the system that is making the difference. You realise that its actually possible to make money with a simple moving average and nothing else IF you can get your head and money management right You start to read books on the psychology of trading and identify with the characters portrayed in those books and finally comes the eureka moment.

The eureka moment causes a new connection to be made in your brain. You suddenly realise that neither you, nor anyone else can accurately predict what the market will do in the next ten seconds, never mind the next 20 mins.

Because of this revelation you stop taking any notice of what anyone thinks - what this news item will do, and what that event will do to the markets. You become an individual with your own method of trading

You start to work just one system that you mould to your own way of trading, you're starting to get happy and you define your risk threshold.

You start to take every trade that your 'edge' shows has a good probability of winning with. When the trade turns bad you don't get angry or even because you know in your head that as you couldn't possibly predict it it isn't your fault - as soon as you realise that the trade is bad you close it . The next trade or the one after it or the one after that will have higher odds of success because you know your system works.

You stop looking at trading results from a trade-to-trade perspective and start to look at weekly figures knowing that one bad trade does not a poor system make.

You have realised in an instant that the trading game is about one thing - consistency of your 'edge' and your discipline to take all the trades no matter what as you know the probabilities stack in your favour.

You learn about proper money management and leverage - risk of account etc etc - and this time it actually soaks in and you think back to those who advised the same thing a year ago with a smile. You weren't ready then, but you are now. The eureka moment came the moment that you truly accepted that you cannot predict the market.

Step 4 - Conscious Competence

You are making trades whenever your system tells you to. You take losses just as easily as you take wins You now let your winners run to their conclusion fully accepting the risk and knowing that your system makes more money than it looses and when you're on a loser you close it swiftly with little pain to your account

You are now at a point where you break even most of the time - day in day out, you will have weeks where you make 100 pips and weeks where you lose 100 pips - generally you are breaking even and not losing money. You are now conscious of the fact that you are making calls that are generally good and you are getting respect from other traders as you chat the day away. You still have to work at it and think about your trades but as this continues you begin to make more money than you lose consistently.

You'll start the day on a 20 pip win, take a 35 pip loss and have no feelings that you've given those pips back because you know that it will come back again. You will now begin to make consistent pips week in and week out 25 pips one week, 50 the next and so on.

This lasts about 6 months

__________________
RUN With The BULLS And HUNT With The BEARS - Nothing By Chance

Step Five - Unconscious Competence

Now we’re cooking - just like driving a car, every day you get in your seat and trade - you do everything now on an unconscious level. You are running on autopilot. You start to pick the really big trades and getting 200 pips in a day doesnt make you any more excited that getting 1 pips.

You see the newbies in the forum shouting 'go dollar go' as if they are urging on a horse to win in the grand national and you see yourself - but many years ago now.

This is trading utopia - you have mastered your emotions and you are now a trader with a rapidly growing account.

You're a star in the trading chat room and people listen to what you say. You recognise yourself in their questions from about two years ago. You pass on your advice but you know most of it is futile because they're teenagers - some of them will get to where you are - some will do it fast and others will be slower - literally dozens and dozens will never get past stage two, but a few will.

Trading is no longer exciting - in fact it's probably boring you to bits - like everything in life when you get good at it or do it for your job - it gets boring - you're doing your job and that's that.

Finally you grow out of the chat rooms and find a few choice people who you converse with about the markets without being influenced at all.

All the time you are honing your methods to extract the maximum profit from the market without increasing risk. Your method of trading doesnt change - it just gets better - you now have what women call 'intuition'

You can now say with your head held high "I'm a currency trader" but to be honest you dont even bother telling anyone - it's a job like any other.

I hope youve enjoyed reading this journey into a traders mind and that hopefully youve identified with some points in here.

Remember that only 5% will actually make it - but the reason for that isnt ability, its staying power and the ability to change your perceptions and paradigms as new information comes available.

The losers are those who wanted to 'get rich quick' but approached the market and within 6 months put on a pair of blinkers so they couldnt see the obvious - a kind of "this is the way i see it and thats that" scenario - refusing to assimilate new information that changes that perception.

Im happy to tell you that the reason i started trading was because of the 'get rich quick' mindset. Just that now i see it as 'get rich slow'

If youre thinking about giving up i have one piece of advice for you ....

Ask yourself the question "how many years would you go to college if you knew for a fact that there was a million dollars a year job at the end of it?

Take care and good trading to you all.

I left of the name of the author of this piece by mistake. If anyone knows the name of the true author, please let me know and I'll add it here. Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

__________________
RUN With The BULLS And HUNT With The BEARS - Nothing By Chance

There are a lot of self-help books out there that talk about discipline and all that sugercoating. Most, if not all, are bullcrap. Discipline and confidence only comes after you have an edge. The reality is that most people fail because they don't have enough money to start trading. They start with 10k and want to make a living out of it, thus taking on huge risk to get what their expectations are and their fears completely take over their trading. Whereas, some people making a return of 25% can live very comfortably if they start out with 400k.

The market is also one of those endeavors that the time spent doing it does not equal success. You can spend a decade, and still be unsuccessful. While the next guy, can find an edge right off the bat in a month, and be successful. It's a crapshoot. Obviously, the more time you do it, the more time you have to stumble upon an edge. It's not a guarantee though.

And all traders lose, they have to. They just hope they gain more than they lose. It's not a straight line equity curve all the time. At least not to anyone I know.

There is no shame in giving up. You can always take a job, and play with forex in your free time.

i realy enjoyed reading all this ,thanks to all of you
however ,i already make some pipes but the problem is

1. u cannot play with huge no of lots cause nothing for sure
so u do not do a great deal of money
2.the winning goes with the wind why
cause most of them do this
earn 30-50 pipes
but if we are in amiddile of a lost trade we wait tand wait untill it goes many pipes against us
and the result is one trade eats the whole winning trades
it happen with all of us
i actually has gone through all the topics here and in other fourms ,hundered of strategies
millon of indicators
but actually when i trde i do not stick much to the indicators or in other words yo cannot trust them cause they just following the price
also fibo,pivot,cam,trnd lines it works some time and some time it is not
and what proofs my words is
1.why we could not all or most of us agree to a strategy prooved success ?
caus there is not any clear one
there is no magic indicators can predict the price

what i mean is you may look to a candle anit is red and falling nicely in the 1 hour frame and then it can be green in the last 20 minute and u enter when it goes down and it closed in a higer price and u see big minus of pipes and u have to wai to the next one
hoping it goes up

no solid thing to refer
now the question i always ask to my slelf and i hope some one have the answer
how the prices are made?
i do not belive it is demand and supply cause the forex is decentealized market
so how could the price rates are always the same in each bank
where this rates comes from?
who making them
what is the machine thet takes what ever inputs to get tick by tick for the price

and what is the most reliable thing can be used to simualte and see the market well

agian thanks for your help
god bless you all

The one huge trade going against us.This is a flaw in our system because it should exit long before.Some drawdown is ok, some system need it, if it goes too much the market has moved against you and time to take a loss.
But even this system with the 50-60-70% DD before you close it and take a loss, it probably works, it will probably come back, it always freakin does!
But we don't have the capital to handle it."Undercapitalisation".
You cant get rich from little money trading any financial markets it will never happen it never has.
But you can make some decent money over time.
Look to some money management rules im sure you already have seen some.Why don't you stick to them because, if you do, you wont get rich but you wont go broke.Dont give up just go smaller and ALWAYS stick to money management rules.

frantacech, that was a great post ... and, yes, I do recognize myself in those.

When times get tough, that might be a good time to take a few weeks off from trading. During that time-off, contact some "successful" traders and ask them if you can watch over their shoulders for a trading day or two. Visit a few traders so you can get a few different ideas. Offer to pay them what you would have lost in trading during that time. It will definitely be worth your time.