Igor,

Man I can feel the love all the way from the other side of the pond. This is a beautiful thing.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

HS

I don't like to get into others business, but I don't agree with you it is important, because you claim its a 100% mechanical system, and posting an EA backtest is against your claims

If you have an expert to do the work why do you let your clients trade it manually for 10 hours a day ?

No one blame you for the human errors , and I don't think the previous posts were out of hate they were attempt from your clients to improve the setup for example Antomi went into a lot of trouble to analyze the data, and was very respectful in his posts.

IMHO if you have the tools to help your clients and if you have smart clients to help you improve those tools maybe its better to work together and come up with a better setup

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

__________________

With the money management that you are using, you will never know in advance what is the best or the worst situation....the DDs are made by the trades sequence and not by the number of pips lost or won....

I respect your opinion completely. But sometimes we can disagree with each other.

You need to understand that I have a philosophy or aproach about the group.
From the very first day I did not sell a system. I sell a total package. Even from the very frst day that I started the public room (more then 2 years ago) people asked me to maybe build an EA for the system we used on that moment. From that very first day I explained that I don't want to do this because it is against my principle as a trader. Again I understand that many people see this different. But I try to bring people together in a room where we trade, where we teach, where we learn. One of the most important elements that I try to teach is discipline.
Without discipline one can not become a trader. Discipline is the most important element that if one wants to become amongst the 5% succesful traders or will stay amongst the 95% of people that need to stop trading within a certain period.

If I make an EA then that aproach or philosophy is gone and finished. People would install their EA in the morning and come back in the evening and count their money.
To say a bit stupid but for all the same they can lay on the beach with a cuba-libre playing their guitar and surounded by 3 beautifull woman and don't know anything about trading and so called still earn money.

That is not what trading is about. At least for me it isn't. I have always said that trading is one of the most difficult jobs. It requires dedication and lots of time and hard work.
Never I have said or stated that comming to our group will make you earn money in an easy way. On the contrary.

The overall big problem here on this topic or the original topic is that one negative voice of a member is immidiatly magnified enormously. Because if one members has a negative opinion on our group or the system or makes a 40page long study people have the tendency to say...you see you see his room is crap and BS.
But you need to understand that their are 15 to 20 people each month who don't think that way and and re-new their membership every month and have nothing to do with this topic what so ever and don't feel the need to post here.
They want to sit in the room. They want to spend all day long in the room. They accept that if one wants to make money true trading is the very same as any other job. It requires dedication.

It is impossible for me to satisfy all people. I know with 100% certainty that if I would make an EA that after a couple of weeks the real dedicated traders will conclude that the spirit of the real trading room is completely gone. That the room will just be a place where people will drop in on a friday afternoon to say: "Hey guys my EA made nice money this week I wish you all a great weekend and c ya".

I know that you don't need to agree with me in any way on whatever kind of subject but hopefully you understand that with this room I have a certain vision and that I stick to this vision. I know if I would build an EA that many more people each month would be interested to become a member. This should also proof that I am not doing this for the money.
Again my vision is bringing people together who descided to trade for a living and know that one needs to spend all his day on his job and not by doing this a couple of hours per day or true an automated way by laying on the beach.

Don't think that I don't listen to the remarks of the members. Very regular I aks each member "how are you doing...how is your trading going....what are your remarks". Based on those remarks I addapted the system where I could and that makes the system what it is now and I will intend to keep doing this in the future.
But I will never be cappable to satisfy all members or all people who ever become a member.
I can only repeat over and over again here on my topics what my vision is so people would not become a member with the wrong expectations and have as few members possible who would be disapointed at the end of the month.

Friendly regards...iGoR

__________________
Success comes with knowledge. Knowledge comes with experience. Experience comes with time and hard work... (iGoR)
MT Intelligence - Stats for fxigor1

About helping members in their trading, I descided already a week ago to give the members a manual EA.

This manual EA will make it possible to fill in manually the trades and amount of contracts that the system needs to take in.
That means that for each trade one needs to fill in everything as one would do in a normal order window.

But it will recongize the Q-bar entry and the S&R points in combination with the R/R ratio that one wants to respect, in a automated way.

That will make that the slipage on the Q-bar entry will be reduced to a minimum (the other trades don't have slipage because they are limit orders).
And it will make it a lot easier or less stressful in calculating the R/R ratio for each trade. Because that EA will not take in the trade if the R/R ratio is not met.

regards...iGoR

__________________
Success comes with knowledge. Knowledge comes with experience. Experience comes with time and hard work... (iGoR)
MT Intelligence - Stats for fxigor1

Yes we do.

But first of all the more experienced traders are not afraid of the drawdowns because we know that if we are in a bigger drawdown this leads to bigger profits after we recover from the drawdown. In other words drawdowns reward us. That is nicely to be seen on the spread sheet. When you see a day of loss the next day you see a serious jump up on the equity curve.

And most important is that the more experienced traders recognize clearly a trade or a situation where you would better stay away if you are in a serious amount of contracts and wait for a better situation to come. That is what you learn if you monitor the trades every day from morning till evening and not if one would have a EA and not stay in front of his pc because then all price action is going to look just the same.
If you would say that this is again discretionary trading then I can only confirm this or in other words depending on your trading skills that you learned trough time. Witch is the purpose of the room.

regards..iGoR

__________________
Success comes with knowledge. Knowledge comes with experience. Experience comes with time and hard work... (iGoR)
MT Intelligence - Stats for fxigor1

Ok good...now that you recognized officially that your system is not a purely 100% mechanical system as you previously declared, and that you take some of the signals in a discretionnary way, not respecting rules of the system, I think it s time for me to move on as you suggested.

I fully admit that anyone can have his own trading room, giving signals based on discretionnary chart analysis and his own experience, as far as he admits it, as you just did...I wish good luck to you and all members....

Hi Claudio,

I am glad I could clarify what our trading room is about.
I would like to add an important detail to it.
The way I see it is as a car is a 100% mechanical object. One can describe it 100% in such a way that if you give the rules or the desciption to an other factory they can rebuild that car exactly the same. That makes that it is not subjective or abstract or "discretionary".
But the way that one drives with a car is discretionary.
The same goes for our system. The rules are 100% mechanical. If that would not be the case then it could not be build into an EA. Because an EA needs to have 100% precise rules, that can not be interpret or debated nore contradict.
But the way that members use our system is in many cases discretionary. The moment that one descides to sit a bit longer in a trade then the T/P rule on a breakout so he could take more profit then that is discretionary.
That is clearly proven nearly every day. The experienced traders have the majority of the trading days more profit then what I post in the spread sheet (according the rules of the system). Because they trade different then the rules. Or to say it simple, they trade discretionary because they get the hang of the system and can start to depend on the system in combination with their trading experience and skills. I can only be glad for that. It makes them traders witch is a step further then only executing some set of rules ( if done succesfully of course--because for the un-experienced trader not following the rules is in many cases the key to failer).

Thanks for wishing the luck and I wish you exactly the same.

Regards...igor

__________________
Success comes with knowledge. Knowledge comes with experience. Experience comes with time and hard work... (iGoR)
MT Intelligence - Stats for fxigor1

phew, I finally flipped through the full topic...

Very interesting. I hope to continue reading the more 'moderated' posts from the two last pages. It is rather boring reading 80% of flames and 20% content, and a waste of time.

I don't agree that if you used an EA the 'spirit' would wear off in your group, Automated Trading is STILL trading, just another kind of trading. It's virtues you can't underestimate, but I think you did just well with the 'manual EA' you talked about, because you take advantage of its speed and fail-proof calculus.

The statement you attatched for December, did you use discretional trading with this manual EA or is it completely mechanical? In the case it was discretional, have you run a fully mechanical test? have you done that research? It would be interesting to know the effect that discretional trading has versus fully atomatic. (By fully automatic I mean that you don't question any trade, and follow strictly the system, either with an EA, manually or mixed). A way to see in what degree your emotions (when you jump on a trade) affect the final outcome, besides your personal skill in decision-taking. It would also tell how the system is as a 'concept' or 'algorithm', and I hope you actually take this into consideration because it would give you more information about your system, and you just CAN'T ignore information like this my friend!!

Regards,
Luis

Ok we now agree on the point that I wanted to make since the beginning: You can indeed trade successfully using your indicators and MM, but you need to do it in a discretionnary way. Anyone trading this system in a fully mechanical way, following strictly the rules of this system, would burn his account at least once every two months. Backtest of any expert built on this system and MM would prove that....

But of course you know it, since you have an expert in your hand, and since you are able to run bactests...if you do not publish these backtests reports, there must be some reasons...and it should be something else than "backtest are not reliable" because any backtest can then be manually checked...