It is always the problem.

For example if I don't try some commercial system so how can I say it is good or not? But if I try so I can not say any valuable opinion because the salesmen are not disclossing anything ... We may say just theoretically based on our experience ...

If it is impossible to make any valuable comments even trying commercial "black boxes" so what to do?

I know some salesman can create one commercial EA per 1 hour. It is 24 EAs in a day and 168 commercial EAs in a week. To evaluate them all it is necessary to rent many PC servers and test them for few months all together... just to prove that EAs are not profitable ... so after 3 months testing their 168 EAs I can make some opinion ... but after those 3 months the samesman will give me the other 504 commercial EAs to evaluate. Who will do it for free? No one salesman wants to pay to the tester. Any salesman is thinking that if he say "my EA is very profitable" so everybody should believe in him. But if not? If not so it will be the question: "who are you, salesman? If you are Igor, Igorad, Kalenzo and so on so we will believe in you. But if we don't know you so sorry...". The other problem is the following: no one salesman gave me any his commercial EA for testing/evaluation. Thus, it is something related to believing or trusting: we trust the salesman or not, do we believe in him or not.

I agree with your siggested you made on some different thread: salesmen should pay for their commercial threads and in this case the public forum will be developed for this money.
But, sorry, we do not have it now.

And because of that the only rules which works now are the following: members who supported our forum a lot (who are well-known for the members) must have the right to sell and they will have full administration/moderation support. Other members who did not support the forum may open commercial thread of course but the other members will critisize them a lot and they will get very low administration support in commercial section.

The other example.

If some member who supported our forum a lot is selling something. He is well-known, did a lot for free. And he created commercial thread. And he did some mistake in commercial thread: his EA is not profitable. Will the members excuse him for that? Yes, they will. I may say more: they will help him. Because he supported the forum a lot for free and will support.

And if the salesman is unknown (or did not suppoprt our forum a lot for free) and his commercial EA is not profitable so will the members excuse him? No, they will not.

I deleted more than 40 commercial threads last week. This week i deleted 5 or 8 only because I had no time for deleting. That is cleaning process

The people who support this forum are good people.They do not need to revert to the level of Steinitz or JTader.These old supporters can come up with the goods that are bonafide .

If Kalenzo came today and posted in the commercial section with good profitable goods ,nobody would want to criticise him.

If Igorad came today and offered his top private EAS for sale in the commmercial section , people would not argue or criticise them because they have earned their respect


El cid

__________________
developer of professional quality expert advisors for fully automated trading

But they will not come and will not sell because some other people are selling: people who did not support our forum.
That is why i am deleting commercial threads regularly.

Hi

Here is what I have put in the Steinitz thread and its true for future


E A development is a very messy business and Commercial sellers should not be allowed to raise funds until they have a ready and tested E A.

E A coders will easily make a great E A under $500 ,therefore fund raising should not be allowed .Some coders will also work for free or charge on commision of sales.

I can sympathise with Steinitz from development problems point of view, as there are bugs and settings problems in a complex E A...........but then 4 to 5 months is a long time for any competent programmer to compile an E A.

Professional programmers I have hired have completed EAS in a week

Regards

El cid

__________________
developer of professional quality expert advisors for fully automated trading

Programmers you have hired.... duh, you give them free Burger King Coupons.

ND,

with due respect, you or no one in this forum has the qualifications or the ability to make any LONG term judgement on any EA! So, how are you going to judge ?

The only thing can be done is to ban obvious scams.

If you start policing .. do u GET kickbacks .. who knows ?

Sellers sell, Buyers buy - it is voluntary you know.

Now you want to put yourself in between and begin passing rulings - makes you feel very important - but does not solve any problem. Somebody will always complain!

And anyone who pays $100 and expects a retirement solution - is plain dumb!!

Let them be - imho.

Hi fxguy07,

Read this thread Banning/Deleting and you will understand: I am not going to do judgement. I am going to clean commercial section.
Because groups of commercial sellers are attacking each other and they are attacking the public threads as well trying to stop any development on the forum. It is impossible to solve this problem by simple banning the people as the sellers are acting by groups of members.

What is the public thrads? It is the threads where developers are developing something for free. Free developers = forum contrubutors. What means 'for free'? It means that no one is paying to them. If commercial sellers are attacking the free developers and the developers are going away from our forum because of that so will commercial sellers pay money for the development on the forum? No, they will not. They will sell. Because any forex forum is developing for money. If some free developers are doing something for free so he is spending their own time and money to do something good for our forum.

You said kickbacks? It will be feedback. Many members who supported this forum a lot will say 'thank you' to me for this cleaning process.
Do you think I am thinking about Steinitz only? No. The same mistake with Steinitz is doing Igor for example. And many many other sellers: they are attacking the other commercial sellers and free public developers fighting each other evwerywhere on the forum. They are using any public thead and the whole forum everywhere.

Just imagine that 2 groups of people came to your city to fight each other in the center of the city. What police will do? Will police judge? No, police will clean the city from both. And just imagine now that we are having 5 or 6 groups? Please don't tell me that you don't understand what I am talking about.

---------------------
It will be one sticky thread "Raw Commercial Ideas". Why ideas? Because not evaluated yet. And it will be the other sticky thread "Evaluate Commercial Ideas".
That's all. 2 threads.
And the othe commercial threads will be opened by forum contributors. Some of them lready have commercial threads. We know all of them: originators of the sections, good free public system developers, testers, coders who coded a lot for free ...

And as a result: no one interests/rights will be infringed. If you want to sell something (for example) but you don't want to contribute this forum - no problem: you will have a right to have 1 or 2 posts in Raw Commercial Ideas. The other people will have rights to evaluate your commercial idea in Evaluate Commercial Ideas by 1 or 2 posts. That's all. No promotion, no marketing, no attacking, no any persecution/humiliation of other developers because of their age, experience, MT4 indicator, English language, habits, country and so on. It will be stopped by itself.

Forum contributors will have right to open commercial threads in commercial section in very easy going way with full administrative support. Become the forum contbutor, develop something, test something, evaluate something - and it will not any problem for you in your commercial case for exampl. If not - you will have just 1 or 2 posts in Raw Commercial Ideas thread with no any marketing/promotion possibility.

That is only the way to protect the main forum contributors from any commercial attacks on the forum.

N D

You are doing the right thing in cleaning up the commercial section.It needs to be clean and healthy and in the interests of the members.

Many new traders are coming to this forum for help.We want to help them.Many commercial threads are created to take advantage of these people's inexperience and knowledge.After a few months many of these Noob(new boys) will dissapear from forex ,like many of my friends who will never come back.

If these people were protected from scammers and helped to become profitable members,they would have the moneyto spend on programming services and invest in many more EAS and indicators and leave them free to this community and forex TSD.Many of the newbees would become members of the Elite section and support it.We could get 10,000 more members and many more EAS and indicators developed.We will not get those extra members to help develop this forum if we allow them to be scammed.They will simply dissapear.We need to protect the future members.

I am hoping to give some EAS and indicators developed with my own money and time to this forum.

You are a businessman and it is time to get of the dirt from this board.We need a good clean up.

El cid

__________________
developer of professional quality expert advisors for fully automated trading

It is nothing with business.
Any forex forum is developing for money.
Because you know ... no one serious commercial seller and no one serious investor/big money guy etc will come to the forum if he will see the our commercial section in its recent situation. It should be fixed, improved, deleted, cleaned, sorted and explained and so on.

And free developers, or coders, or testers, or analysts, or evaluators or any are developing for free. No one is payng to them. And the only way to encourage them is to give them oppotunity and place/space to sell some next versions of their indicator/EAs/system/trading technique manual or any. Otherwise everything will be stopped.