If you guys want to create the battle so it is the better to do it on the street. We are technical forum. And we are not FF forum. Our forum is not good platform for your battle between those 2 groups of people.

Commercial attacking is increasing on our forum.
What is commercial attacking?

I spend long time to understand about it and now I may explain.
It is one group of people trying to put one commercial seller down by very hard way and they don't care about all the members of the forum. When they are doing it with next seller. And next one. And then? And then they are selling without any competition using exact the same mistakes for which the other sellers were attacked by them.

May be, on the other forums this habid may be accepted. But not here sorry.
All aggressive/radical messages/ideas will be deleted from our forum.

Any commercial seller can be "bitten" by technical way only because we are technical forex forum.

---------------------------

How to sell without having time for attacking?
- create good free trading system by your team or by you only.
- make your public thread popular.
- create good indicators and/or EAs. Public ones.
- what is team? One is developer, the other person is tester, next one is coder ... all of them are team.
- improve your public indicators/EAs (by your team).
- make one or few next versions of your indicator/EAs to be commercial one on separated commercial thread.
And in this case members of this forum will have a choice: to use your free versions on your public thread and to buy your commercial (next) advanced versions on your commercial thread.

-------------------------------

And if the member (any member) implements this idea so this member will not have time for any attacking. And the other selles will be in strong competition. Real competition without attacking. The only way to be in competition with any commercial seller is to create something which is better one.
How to put some seller down?
Create good trading system which is more good which the other seller is selling!

Some members may ask:
"what to do if i am not coder?".
"what to do if I am not developer?"

You may do it as a team: one is developer, the other member may be a coder, the other member may test the indicators/systems. So, basicly I know few forex forum development specializations:
- system developers. They may code, may not. Usually developers are not coders. In most cases developer is author of original idea only participating in the development as a leader of the team.
- coders.
- testers.
Most rare specialization is tester. I know just few people on the forum who are doing it in professional way for the many years already. So, if the member can not code and can not create good popular forex ideas so this member may test.

It is the team. This team may go through this one from the beginning:

- create good free trading system by your team or by you only.
- make your public thread popular.
- create good indicators and/or EAs. Public ones.
- improve your public indicators/EAs (by your team).
- make one or few next versions of your indicator/EAs to be commercial one on separated commercial thread.

And you should have one problem only as a team: how to devide money between the members of the team But you should do some agreement from the beginning of course.

If your system is not good as public system (public indicators and/or public EAs) so the team is not going to commercial (is not selling anything).

And in this case:
- most of the members will get good free stuff (systems and/or indicators and/or EAs) for free with improvements and so on.
- the team (who developed it) will have possibility to build commercial versions and sell it.
- members will have a choice: use free versions and commercial ones.
- team members will have possibility to sell improved versions for money and to make money by commercial selling.

And no one will have time for any attacking.
Bad sellers will be fully forgotten.
It is the real competition.

Just an idea.

From Steinitz...I am not a guest or subscribed to FF.

I see...I understand now...

ES

Why I posted this idea?

Because many coders are asking: "ND, can you give me the link to the thread where I can code for free with possibility to commercial development?".
I am getting many PMs from coders. They are asking by PMs even to open the threads in this section: http://www.forex-tsd.com/metatrader-programming/ as 'Coder is looking for developer', 'Want to participate in testing', 'Developer is looking for coder', 'Tester is looking for coder', 'Coder is looking for commercial development' and so on. I have many requests already.

And the same with non-coders: they are asking to test and ready to test anything.

And we are having many people who can create some ideas openning public threads and may act as team leaders for example. And they are looking for the coders and people who may test.

So, it is just necessary to speak between the members. Because necessary prerequisites were created already.

That's funny thing that people can not find each other on one forum.

Sorry I forgot the other specialization.
System promoters.

System developers.
coders.
testers.
Trading system promoters.

System developers.
coders.
testers.
Trading system promoters.

In some cases System developer = coder, or Trading system promoter and so on.

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Questions.

1. What is the differencies between coding participating now and coder as a team?
If public system is well-developed and team decides to go to commercial as next step of the development so coder as part of the team will get some %s from sellers income for all life long (as long as commercial thread is existing). The same with testers, system promotes and system developers of course.

2. Why we need system promoters?
In some cases trading system developers are having very good communication skills. It is nothing with English language. We may see from the forum:
- one person posted something inportant and very usefull and just 100 members saw it in this day;
- the other member may post something with is useless, something which is nothing and 2,000 members will see his post with many replies. He has ability to promote and collect the members around. Promoter. It is very personal skills.

3. Why testers should be part of the team?
If testers is part of the team so they will get income from commercial selling (10% or any % estimated by team as an agreement or any from the beginning of public development). It is strongly recommended for testers to be included inside the team.

4. What is a team? Why this word 'team' you are using?
It is just a word only: 'team job', 'working as a team' ...
If someone knows the other word about how to describe this so please post.

5. How much money do I need to start the public development with commercial possibility.
Nothing. Usually public development is doing for free. Of couse it is not for free for ther team (electricity, internet cost, time=money and so on). But it may be started from zero in most of the cases.

6. What to do if I already developed public thread/system on this forum and system is popular?
So you did 60% of 70% of all job. Just finish by yourself, or define the people who will be in your team and continue by commercial development/selling on separated thread.

7. Public thread and commercial thread must be in separated section?
Yes, exactly. Public development should be in public sections, commercial - in commercial section only. Two thread as minimum.

8. So we may start with public development only? Or we may do public and commercial simultaniously?
Every starting should be for public development only. Public development may be going to commercial only if the public products are good and tested. Besides team may go to commercial way by one of the versions of the system/indicator(s)/EA(s) developed as by-product or any inside the main development.

9. Can I start with commercial?
No, read item 8.

10. Must we make agreement about the team from the beginning of the public development?
Yes, of course.

11. What to do if I started the sections here http://www.forex-tsd.com/trading-systems/ ?
Speak with section originators. They are having the right to open commercial development/threads inside the section. For example: ValeoFX is having the right to open commercial thead connected with his system inside his section http://www.forex-tsd.com/xo-method/ alone or together with team. If you are not originator of any section so it is necessary to speak with section originators.

12. You said that members of the team will get money as long as their commercial thread will be in the forum, right?
Right. But if the team is not developing/improving the original system so the commercial thread will be deleted. For example: if public thread is forgotten by team so commercial one will be deleted (by me).

13. Can you tell us some examples about how the other forums are doing it? Do we have EA which was developed by team work?
Many forums are doing the same. EA? Goldwarrior EA was developed by team work. They only had one problem: the testers were not included inside the team and they spent long time for some explanation, setting opimization and so on.

14. I want to be a tester but i do not have experience to test and I am not a coder.
Basicly the testers are the members who are testing. If system developer (or team leader) agrees with your participation so why not?

15. Can you participate as develper, or tester, or any?
Yes, why not, inside this possible generally accepted structure as simple member. But usually I do not have time for that so ... sorry ... may be in the future ...

16. Why any good public development must be continuing by commercial development? What happened if the team decided to stop and decided not to sell anything in the end of the development?
The other people will sell: they will steal and sell.

17. What to do if the public development will not be ready for commercial selling? I mean: if the team achieves good results but the results are not good enough and nothing to sell?
In this case our forum will have some good public system developed.
Not bad.
I will try to controll this issue concerning public - commercial.

18. Can the team go to commercial selling if they did not developed the public system/indicator(s)/EA(s)?
No, of course. I will monitor this subject.

19. How to start?
Select your team and send PM to me about the members (because I should know about who will work with whom just to avoid future possible conflicting situation).

20. May I open the thread abvout selecting the team?
Yes, why not? Just go to this section http://www.forex-tsd.com/metatrader-programming/ and do your 'call'.

21. Is it your proposal?
Idea. Thinkings. I am just thinking and typing. It may be changed of course.

22. Why do we need it?
We are fine. No problem. The forum is developing. But if we implement this team's system so we will get the following:
- we will have many public indicators/systems and EAs developed inside our forum. And those systems/indiocators and EAs will be tested, evaluated and improved consistently.
- people who are developing something for the public will have possibility to sell and to get money from their commercial versions.
- anybody will have possibility to make money using our forum. Anybody.
And as a results we will have more members on our forum, our forum will be more popular.

23. What is the problem now? What is the situation now?

Now? Well. Situation is not good now (just an example):
- Some coders agree to code for 30 or 50 dollars one time payment.
Developers are hiring the coders, coders are coding, the developers are selling without any testers. They don't understand coding job and tester's job. They are paying just 30 or 50 dollars for them.
- many developers are looking for the coders to do public development with commercial possibilities and can not find them.
- many coders are looking for the same things and can not find.
- testers are ready to test everything now just hoping to get something for free. I am right? Right. Developers and coders don't understand the importance of tester's job and testers are not included inside of any team.
- System promoters are posting without any developers. Nothing to promote for them. So they are doing some kind of anti-promotion on the forum (attacking). Anti-promotion is killing the forum.
- some unknown people are coming to the forum and selling.

And all of them (coders, developers, testers and system promoters) agree to work with each ther but they don't know how to meet each other on one forum
It is the situation right now.

24. Last question. Long way to read your proposal for whole page #5.
can you make it shorter?
Yes, I can: we should be well self-organized. All the members i mean.

Thats all.