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Old 08-21-2007, 01:57 PM
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I did not have a choice. Apparantly I was accepted just before a change in the fund. I would have taken the 8:1 leverage for those of you that know me

I prefer less exposure.

ES
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedxx View Post
Hi Muddyguy.

I signed up as a member on the yahoo groups and need your help there. On the Files section there are several different ex4 files and with different names.

Which is the latest version of the ex4 for the Correlation trading and which is the latest manual regarding the strategy? I would like to set it up and give it a go to see how it all works on a demo.

Another topic: why did Bill change the min balance from $5k to $10k? It seems he no longer wants to accept $5k accounts though ES has one here that seems to be doing quite well.
Hi,

The C4 robot is the newest correlation robot. There is one user manual, as well as a couple forum threads from last year.

My latest strategy is from this thread over the last few months. Because of my worries regarding the carry trade collapse, I have been suggesting long/short positive correlations. They seem to have less risk than negative correlations going long/long. Risk is still there, especially in this market, but it is somewhat smaller.

Yes, GoFx has made some changes in the last month. Please PM me about this.

Take care,
Bill
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De Vinci View Post
Hi BILL



Thanks a lot for having spent ur precious time for helping me to have a more clear idea about the GoFX "system" / performances ....

This Bill Young seems to be a Top-Notch trader, but for sure, your 'bots are amazing, too...

Excuse the simplified sentences i use, as i said, i am not very fluent...

By the way, I would like to know if Electric Savant ( if he happens to read this post ) , could tell which LEVEL of risk he has chosen for his Managed Account...

The GOFx site displays 2 levels of Risk to choose from, for small accounts :

CorrFX Aggressive Growth Program
Minimum Capital Requirement: $10,000
Maximum Leverage: 8:1

CorrFX Accelerated Growth Program
Minimum Capital Requirement: $10,000
Maximum Leverage: 20:1

I will more than probably open an account in the next weeks....
To make around 10% profit during such a crash seems to be as an excellent proof of value.

Best regards to all

DV
Hi DV,

I'm going to jump in here to help with an answer. What is very interesting to me has been my learning curve once I met Bill Young. He comes from a completely different kind of trading environment in the institutional world. He and I have talked about methodologies that I have never seen in these forums. Conversely, I showed him this forum and he had never seen anything like this before. I'm not sure it was a compliment. He was impressed with the level of sharing among the members, but some of the "systems" promoted, especially with huge leverage just shocked him.

So, the point is, the GoFX site and offerings have been evolving to respond to the needs of the market and the clients. One major bit has been leverage. Bill Young does not believe in fixed leverage. Maximum leverage limits as agreed to between the client and GoFX, yes. But there are times that he brings the leverage way, way down for everybody. Last week he had his most aggressive clients below 1:1 because conditions were horrible. He scaled up as conditions improved. He no longer offers a fixed leverage program as most the clients want the highest leverage, but when he talks with them to evaluate their needs and goals, they also want the lowest risk. Can't have it both ways...

This keeps the clients happier as there is less swing in the account, and it is easier for him. General Patton once said that he kept attacking because he didn't like falling back and then paying for the same ground twice. Bill is the same way, he doesn't like losing money and having to earn the same profit twice, especially when his incentive agreement states that he will only get paid for those profits once... I can see his point.

I looked through this thread and it appears I didn't post something I wrote about risk to this forum. It went to my yahoo group. Please check my next couple posts. Note the bit about scaling into risk. This is what Bill Young does with ALL new clients. No exceptions. He does not want a new client to start with a down month. Also, I'm going to post his most recent newsletter which discusses market conditions during the last two weeks. Anyone can sign up for that newsletter at the GoFXPro.com website.

Trade carefully,
Bill

Last edited by Muddyguy; 08-21-2007 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:48 PM
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Protecting an account

Professional institutional traders often make money. Inexperienced retail traders often lose money. Account protection is one of the main reasons why.

Protecting an account – A primary goal of a trader should be to protect the account from painful corrections. Anyone in carry trades after June 1 needed a plan or exit strategy. If anyone in a carry trade or Freedom Rocks style correlated, carry trade stayed in, substantial cash reserves should have been available to cover the drawdown, or better yet, hedge trades employed with either currency or options. I’d like to compare what I see from some individuals to what an institutional trader would do:

Leverage – I have traders show me account statements at 40:1 leverage. This is not the leverage number from the broker. This is the calculation of how many lots per dollar are traded. At 40:1 a $10,000 account will have FOUR full size lots in play. That is great if the trading is going in the right direction perhaps using a conditional market trading system. But, these accounts will be the first to blow up in a negative move. Retail traders cannot handle the volatility and experience huge real money losses. By comparison, professional, institutional traders like Bill Young at GoFX often limit their leverage to between 1:1 and 1:3, which is 0.1 to 0.3 lots per $10,000. That is a huge difference and usually what stands between consistent profitability and disaster.

Drawdown – I’ve seen systems that allow huge draw downs of 60% or more. If the trade continues badly, these accounts are wiped out. By comparison, institutional traders can be much more cautious about drawdown. To quote Bill Young, “[drawdown limits are] based on MIP (Money in Play), not account equity. This provides a safety cushion should the markets become overly volatile. I limit DD to 3-5% of MIP, which is considerably less than the percentage formula based on account equity.”

Scaling – one should scale into any trade, starting with a smaller position and adding to it if the market continues profitably. Too many traders jump in with everything. Once in, start planning the exit strategy, and it is appropriate to scale out of a trade to protect at least some of the profits. Taking this one step further, a really good institutional trader will scale into a system with a new account. What this means is that in the first few months with a new account, they will make sure they generate profits with more conservative trading. In that way, as they scale in to the planned risk/leverage levels, a down month may only risk previous profits, not initial capital. It is not as exciting as a big first month, but it also is not as painful as a loss in the first month. Yeah, GoFX does this, too. They are a good example of how trading should be done.

Trade carefully,
Bill
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:57 PM
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GoFX Newsletter

Hi,

With the permission of Bill Young at GoFX I am posting his most recent newsletter. It is very interesting reading and provides insight into an institutional trader’s perspective during last week.

Anyone can sign up for this newsletter at the GoFXPro.com website.

Trade carefully,
Bill

[GOFX:6] Wild Ride, Carry Trade Demolition Derby

Hello again Traders,

In our last update, we talked about the anticipated downdraft in the markets. Last week, through a bit of turbulence, the markets were very uncooperative. But now.. whoa... it finally happened as we expected.

As you may have seen, last week was a very frustrating week. Unfortunately, not every week can be a good market to work with, even for Institutional traders. Positions were attempted, correlation signals seemed to be good; defensive moves were adjusted, but due to the volatility of the markets there was simply very little follow thru with price action.

Subsequently, any gains would be short lived, and price action would reverse causing stops to be hit. Leverage was purposely kept low due to the questionable market conditions. We simply will not put on large positions in questionable markets. Its suicide. We will however, use small positions to test the markets and do so over frequent trading. If the markets move in our favor with a reasonably strong and responsive momentum, then position sizes will be increased accordingly based on prevailing market conditions.

We were expecting large moves in the market, but were unsure of when they would occur. Accordingly, as we were anticipating these moves, positions were purposely kept at a minimal size so that just in-case the moves occurred in the reverse of what we expected, our losses would be minimal, easily manageable and we would at least be able to quickly adjust to the proper direction of the move and could then increase position size once the momentum was confirmed.

As you have seen, the large moves occurred last night, sufficiently so that our overnight gains are about +12/14% as of this writing. We expect further downside in the markets and will monitor them accordingly.

An interesting note: We have been receiving a lot of requests to increase leverage. I find that to be very interesting considering the fact that it is due to an over-amount of leverage used in the markets today that is one of the major causes of the carry trades being unwound and credit spreads being widened. Leverage is a two edged sword and can hurt as much, often times worse, than can help.

We have a strict policy about the use of leverage. We will initiate positions using small test sizes. Many times less than 1:1. If the markets move as anticipated, positions will be increased up to 50% of the maximum approved leverage for the particular market conditions, i.e.: scaling in. We prefer to maintain stops/drawdown to around 1/2 - 1%. If a position begins to go into drawdown, nearing 1/2%,positions are thinned to reduce the amount of potential drawdown. Once the markets move back in the anticipated direction, position sizes are increased should the market conditions warrant. Using last week as an example, if normal leverage size positions were used, draw-downs would have been much great than the 1 - 1 1/2% we experienced.

Alternatively, when the market conditions warrant, such as evidenced by the strong market moves overnight, applicable leverage will be used. Just to share some info about last night's action, the gains made were done so using a maximum leverage 6:1. Any higher, the quick actions/whipsaws experienced overnight could have resulted in higher than normal give back of part or all of the gains. One of the major pairs traded overnight was the AUDJPY. When the markets spiked down a few times, the institutional pricing structure we use actually was inversed, as traders were scrambling to exit at all cost. LOL, I just love covering into a crowd. Prices didn't matter to those traders and it showed. Inverse quotes, widened spreads, sharp snapbacks 20-30 pips moves in a glance. This was in our institutional platform where most of the time our spreads are zero to two wide. I can't imagine how wild the retail spreads were acting last night. Wild markets indeed! Gotta Love it!
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:46 AM
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Talking

Thanks Bill

for all these needed infos about leverage risks...

Never enough for the newbie i am, and probably for the other noobs, too...


DV
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Old 08-23-2007, 06:45 AM
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Question on inputs and Robot

Hi Muddyguy

I spent the last couple days reading the PDFs on your yahoo groups and then last night started the EA on a demo account. So far I have to say it is quite impressive. Both simple and boring, but brilliant and "safe". . . Not only will I be starting a managed account with Gofx but I also want to continue demoing and learning more about this strategy.

I have a couple questions regarding the user inputs and how it works.

Trade Frequency: The example you give is very helpful where you would add 0.01 standard lots for each $50 gained in interest. The question I have then is What value would you enter into Trade Frequency to accomplish the example? 50 or 0.01 or 1% (50/5000)?

AddLots1-2: What is the difference between this and Trade Frequency or the relationship between the two variables?

Relative Profit: What is the relationship between relative profit and Take profit? If I have a take profit of $300 and I want a relative profit of $300 and I am trading 4 lots, what happens?

Stop Trigger/Trailing Stop: Is the value expected for Stop Trigger absolute or relative to the number of lots being traded? For instance I want a 15% stop loss. Does it accept %
What if I put in 150 into the stoploss how does that work if I am trading 4 lots?

What pairs have proven to work best in back testing and without any stoploss or take profits, what amount of DD was experienced during July and August? Those months were quite tough and showed some large revaluations.
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Old 08-24-2007, 03:44 AM
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ea

is this a hedge strategy ?
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:25 PM
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some facts and figures

I have been doing a bit of calculations to see what I come up with and wanted to share the following with you. Hopefully you can use it and help me understand if I am totally wrong. I was trying to figure out how to get 1% - 2% a day, but so far I am not coming close.

Assumptions:
Short GBP/USD and Long USD/CHF in ratio of 1:2. Current YTD Correlation between GBP/USD and USD/CHF closing prices is -0.63. That is how I came up with the ratio of 1:2

Based on published swap rates at IBFX on mini accounts, you would earn an overnight swap of $1.81 for each set of 0.3 lots you hold (0.03+0.89+0.89)

Take a $5000 account and trade 50% of your capital (50:1 leverage) you can hold 1.25 lots. Very high leverage and not really what anyone advises, but this is for illustration purposes.

So what you have now is 4 sets of 0.3 lots (1.2 lots) and $1.81*4 =$7.24 swap per day. This represents 0.14% interest per day.

If you fully invested your 5k account at 100:1 leverage and NEVER got a margin call, you could theoretically hold 5 lots. This would pay you a daily swap of $30 (remember 1:2 leverage earns $1.81 for every 0.3 lots). $30/$5000 = .6% daily interest.

I know I must be missing something in the strategy as maths is not my strength, but based on the daily swap I cannot see how to get 1% of the account.
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:48 PM
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You get it with trading not carry...but Bill is better to answer...I will read with interest,,,(interest hhehe)

Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedxx View Post
I have been doing a bit of calculations to see what I come up with and wanted to share the following with you. Hopefully you can use it and help me understand if I am totally wrong. I was trying to figure out how to get 1% - 2% a day, but so far I am not coming close.

Assumptions:
Short GBP/USD and Long USD/CHF in ratio of 1:2. Current YTD Correlation between GBP/USD and USD/CHF closing prices is -0.63. That is how I came up with the ratio of 1:2

Based on published swap rates at IBFX on mini accounts, you would earn an overnight swap of $1.81 for each set of 0.3 lots you hold (0.03+0.89+0.89)

Take a $5000 account and trade 50% of your capital (50:1 leverage) you can hold 1.25 lots. Very high leverage and not really what anyone advises, but this is for illustration purposes.

So what you have now is 4 sets of 0.3 lots (1.2 lots) and $1.81*4 =$7.24 swap per day. This represents 0.14% interest per day.

If you fully invested your 5k account at 100:1 leverage and NEVER got a margin call, you could theoretically hold 5 lots. This would pay you a daily swap of $30 (remember 1:2 leverage earns $1.81 for every 0.3 lots). $30/$5000 = .6% daily interest.

I know I must be missing something in the strategy as maths is not my strength, but based on the daily swap I cannot see how to get 1% of the account.
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